As always, if you'd like to use this space to tell stories/secrets/confessions of your dangerous maternal (or paternal!) mind, send me an e-mail and you too can enjoy the refuge of the Basement...
And, don't forget to poke your head in on the circle share, below. Leave your own definitions of selfishness in the comments - or, if you're so inclined, post them at your own blog and leave the link. Next week, I'll post the results of the circle share, with links, as a Very Special Basement Post on selfishness.
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My marriage is pretty good for two fairly volatile people with issues. No biggie issues.
The biggest issue that has a ripple effect across the continent is that my libido is vastly lower than my partner's and how I view this vs how he views it.
Life seems fairly simple for him. Really. If he gets enough action, he is a happy little man who can purr along and deal with anything... if he starts to feel thwarted or hard done by, then BLAM! The world explodes.
I apparently have been looking foxy lately... I have not felt this way...I have felt run down and tired (but apparently I always do so that is just an excuse!)...yesterday I felt really beat, but still wanted to take my mom up on her babysitting offer.
Dh wanted a hot date night. I just wanted to get out and would have preferred going out with a group.
HE had visions of many sexual fun and games (though this was supposed to be MY birthday treat, not his!)....and went on and on and on about it....this had the total opposite effect on me and just started to irritate me...especially when it was the middle of the day, I was feeling awful and stuck at my inlaws place!
So I tried to have a good time, but wasn't into bj's in the car or lord knows what else..though I tried to not run screaming and tried to feel good.
We got home and were met with a story and mess about how my son had been brought home by his uncle and started barfing all night long. We had let him stay and go have dinner with the family at Denny's to be returned later.
Apparently he got sick after pop and milk shakes (though us having him out in the sun was too blame...not the junk and not his uncle getting him over excited).
So I talked to mom about this and, yes, she rambles on and then went on about her trip and so on. Dh got pissed and left. I finally got mom out the house.
Dh then went on about how my mom drives him nuts because the date then just ends the moment we walk in the door and the mood is gone and we are stuck listening to my mom and why doesn't she get the hint.
I agreed and apologized for not jumping on this and it was a bad habit (party brought out by the fact that she is our ONE and only babysitter and so humour her) and last night because I was SHATTERED AND REALLY NOT INTO MUCH ELSE!).
Anyway..he got madder and madder and it escalated into him may as well see a hooker for some satisfaction and so on....this is the usual argument by the way.
And how it shows how much I don't care about him etc. I just see it has having a lot more on my list of things that need taken care of in a day....mainly HIS KIDS!
Again..this is a repeat fight. He stormed off and I went and slept with my soon and he then stayed in the bedroom till after two this afternoon. He then took it out on his rambling and irritiating mom who had called about needing him to run an errand and again about heat stroke and so on, and threw the phone across the room.
He is sulking and I don't even want to attempt to deal with it. I know our perspective and libido's clash....I am just not sure how to deal with that! Rallying and getting into it does work.. but I was just unwell last night...plus, he really makes me feel pressured....the language of 'romance' does not impress or do anything... it makes me feel like there is an 'or else' there and I am sure that there is and he just doesn't want to admit it.
It leaves me cold. It leaves me imagining life as a single parent.
I don't think that is the right approach. This is our albatross... this is the biggest issue... the fight arises every couple of months and the same stuff gets chucked out there... I am assuming I have to go get help and get horny. I just don't feel like I want to... not under an 'or else'.
What do I do? He is not a total asshole... he is a good guy. His family are awful and I can't say I was upset to have him yell at his mom... but not for his own personal reasons. I don't even want to deal and that is bad. Do I go groveling to him... you are right I am wrong...how can I fix it? All that?
I cannot talk to anyone about this... it is just not me.
I thought maybe the blogging crew lurking around the Basement might have some sage words for me...
Thanks.
15 comments:
If you have different wants regarding the frequency and acts surrounding sex, you need to talk about it. NOT in the heat of a fight, NOT when you're about to have sex, NOT afterwards. It needs to be a neutral time in a neutral place (the kitchen, say). If you can't come to an agreement (please don't talk and talk and talk about it all day because that really turns me off, if I say I'm feeling unwell don't expect to have sex that night, etc.) or if it turns into a big fight, you should seek counseling. This is a VERY common problem in marriages and if you can work through it, great. Often, the cause is something unrelated to sex itself; stress, depression, feeling as if the burden of childcare and housecare falls on you and you alone, etc.
But you have to stop feeling like you owe him something and you have to stop apologizing. YOU own your body, not him. If you don't feel like having sex, you shouldn't have to feel guilty abou it.
He needs to learn how to truly romance a woman. Doing the dishes, helping around the house more, saying loving things all with no expectation of getting anything in return. I was a virgin when I got married so it was a hard transition to make. I am still a little annoyed by the fact that my husband thinks that he can get it any time he wants just because we are married. We are slowly growing together and getting on the same page sexually but it has been a long road.
Men get close by having sex. Women want to have sex when they feel close. It's a bit dichotomous, but it just requires some give and take on both parts.
You're doing a lot of giving, and it doesn't sound like he's doing much. He needs to know that you need to feel as if your needs matter to him before you'll feel close enough to him to have sex. It's not that you don't want him or love him, but that you feel you're on opposite sides.
I hope that he will listen to you.
This seems like it should be a fixable problem. You said that it's not "romance" you need - it's a more fundamental removal of the "or else" hanging over your head. And if it's possible to get him to see how much that "or else" inhibits you sexually, there may be some hope there for a change. (Not to mention taking the whole hooker thing right off the table. Not even as an empty threat, not even as a joke.)
I have the same problem with my husband. I hate it when he thinks that a night out to dinner and a movie that I "dress up" for (put makeup on basically) automatically warrants sex. And I hate when all he can talk about is sex during dinner and has a boner the whole night. It is that entitlement hanging over me like a huge dark cloud and it makes me so mad. Usually I refuse sex just to piss him off in these situations, and I know I shouldn't do that, but I do sometimes...so sue me.
I agree with previous comments. Talk talk talk. I personally am very shy and it is so hard for me to voice to my husband what I like/dislike when it comes to sex, but we are learning to discuss those things now. We've always been good at communication, just not about sex.
Oh, and another thing that bugs me: sex after my period. Every day I'm on my period my husband asks if I'm still on it. And if the answer is, "No, yesterday was my last day," I can practially see him getting hard and hear him think to himself, "yessss!" in his head. Like he's automatically going to score because I'm clean.
One thing is for sure, sex is not something I feel I'm entitled to, from my husband or anyone else. It bothers me that men in general feel that way when involved with a woman.
It seems to me from your telling of it that all the sex was aimed at his pleasure, i.e. BJs in the car and gettin' some and woo hoo hoo! He didn't even stop to consider that you said you weren't feeling very well. Not to mention it was YOUR birthday! He seems to be doing an awful lot of taking, and I bet you'd have been happier to oblige if he'd taken the time to treat you respectfully. It's almost like it's not you he's into, that it's just getting his rocks off he wants, which is sort of proven by his hooker comment, and that's poor taste all around. If he'd been more into getting busy because it's YOU, the love of his life, it wouldn't seem so threatening with the 'or else'. You know, a foot or back rub, candles and soft music, some make-out kissing instead of just getting straight to business. Making you FEEL turned on instead of just expecting you to BE turned on are two different things.
Not to mention that when a child is throwing up, they don't feel well and regardless of what made them throw up, they need some compassion. It's not like anyone WANTS to throw up and be sick. Even if the timing sucks, there's nothing to be done but postpone. But the priorities seem off.
Though they do say sex is the barometer of a relationship, so I'm not surprised it's causing hangups when the frequency slows. I went through that myself, but I was the one wanting more. Maybe after TALKING about it with him, if the situation doesn't improve, you could look into talking to someone to see if there are further issues. Sometimes, it could be a chemical reaction in your brain and can be easily fixed.
Good luck to you.
My husband and I have the same issues. His sex drive is way higher than my own and when he thinks there is a chance that he might "get some" its all he can talk about all day which totally turns me off. Basically if he expects it, I don't want to do it. I prefer sex to be a more spontaneous kind of thing, rather than having to do it because it has been x number of days since the last time. We also have the issues with my mom, who is our only evening baby-sitter.
I know this wasn't probably much help, but please do know that you are certainly not alone in this. I think there are many, many other women dealing with the same issues.
I think you should tell your husband flat out that threatening to go solicit a hooker's services is the exact opposite of behavior that will get him laid. Tell him that you cannot possibly be turned on while imagining his desire to have sex with a skanky ho. Tell him if he even hints at the idea of sleeping with a prostitute in your presence again, he will not get laid for a month.
I think you should also tell him that the only thing that will turn you on is feeling like he loves you for who you are, and not for the sexual satisfation you can give him. And the only way he can show that is to stop pressuring you. It's one thing for him to say that he feels sexually deprived and it makes him unhappy-- that's good marital communication. But it's quite another thing for him to bully you about the difference in your sex drives. What he OUGHT to be saying is, "What can I do to help get you back in the mood?" not "If you don't put out I'll find someone who will."
I think counselling would be a really good idea here, too. It sounds to me like he has a fundamental misunderstanding of what gets women sexually excited. Which is really a fairly common problem among men, as they can get sexually excited by a stiff breeze . . .
Have you ever seen the movie Annie Hall? Diane Keaton and Woody Allen are dating and they both see shrinks. There is a split screen scene with both of them talking to their doctors. The drs. both ask "How often do you have sex?" Diane Keaton says, "All the time, three times a week." And Woody Allen says, "Hardly ever, three times a week."
I think every relationship has this problem to some degree or another. Talking about it when you aren't "in the moment" is probably your best bet. And I agree threats of going outside the marriage are the opposite of helpful. Actually, I think threats are a problem all around. You need to find a middle ground without antagonizing each other. Best of luck to you. This is a tough situation.
You need counseling. If his reaction to a no is to throw things and pout all day, he has some major problems that will only continue to get worse. You are NOT his sex slave. With his threats it makes me wonder if he hasn't already gone and hired a prostitute at some point, justifying it as you are a prude (which you are NOT).
This is a HUGE issue and can destroy your marriage. If he cannot grow up over this I worry about your future. Is he abusive with other things too? Because pressuring you to have sex, especially after you have said no...reminds me a lot of the beginnings of rape.
How do I say this...he sounds like he has a bit of a mean streak....try counselling, he does need a reality check about his behaviour. If his behaviour and attitude do not change, you might need to find a way out, you should not have to live with that tyranny of emotion. Good Luck.
PS. We went thru some major stuff ourselves, and went thru counselling. Many couples do and should not be ashamed of it.
I also wanted to say how sorry I am you are going through this.
As the one with the higher drive, I can understand his underlying frustration, but he is, as others have said, going about it all wrong.
Instead of pressure and bitching about how you never have time or energy, he should help you with your tasks so you might have some time or energy left.
Instead of talking about how he's in the mood, he should help you get there.
Make these suggestions when he's not in full sulk, tell him you'd love to feel closer and more interested, and this is what you need. It might be a good start, at least.
Wow everyone....
Thanks....I mean it thanks...
You have given me some great fodder to help me formulate a 'talk'
He did apologize for that night....but wouldn't discuss it further..only saying that the whole thing was HIS fault.
So maybe it just takes a long time for things to sink in!!!
This is our one BIG issue....it arrises on a schedule based on his 'cycle' of moods. I should be marking it on the calender.
He doesn't get how lack of even basic communication can leave me cold.
So if he is hiding in his office for hours on end oblivious to what is going on or is needed in the household....and THEN at the end of the day wants some action....I am not going to be terribly 'warmed up'.....not to someone I have barely spoken to all day long.
And since I have simmering issues about his use of time just now..that I have been trying tactfully to broach.....that adds another factor.
I have been trying to not ask for family time or help with the chores...I just tell him I need help and this is what we are doing.
I have also been pointing out that the family fun time is usually without him.
Sure he will play with the kids and take em out...but not for the big stuff....not unless I make him!
He comes from this amazingly disfunctional family......I don't know how he is even remotely ok!
And trust me..the ok part is amazing.
Despite the big ISSUE, he is my best friend......he loves me.....and I think just needs more 'training' in how to do it!
When I met him he had no social skills, was a bit of a nerd, was dealing with an insane family whose answer to everything is to yell and fight and never back down.
He was the deep one! The one they don't understand and trash talk all the time.
His confidence in himself has exploded over the years....but he 'forgets' I think
And sadly the more dealings we have with his family and their problems (his mom is ALWAYS sick!)..the worse his temperament gets....they make him crazy and he doesn't like to talk about it.
Anyway.....I am going to take a bunch of things you guys said and use it to help me formulate some way to 'chat' with him when we have some neutral and quiet time to ourselves.
He isn't a lost cause (not after 14 years!)....so we will figure something out!
Thanks
I just want to let you know that there is hope. My husband and I have been married for about 15 years, and we had this very same problem. There are two things that got us through it.
1. Communication. Men and women think of sex differently. For women, emotional intimacy leads to physical intimacy. I explained to him that a variety of factors (not enough help with children and household chores mainly) were making me feel disconnected and angry with him. He explained to me that he felt rejected and unloved when I wouldn't have sex with him. For men sex=love. We really tried to see the other's point of view, and while it wasn't instantaneous, things improved a lot.
2. We made a concerted effort to connect with one another. We made dates and kept them, and made a point to do things to improve our intimacy in both ways. Again, it didn't happen overnight, but it helped our relationship tremendously.
Also, if it helps, my sex drive did come back when my children got a little older and more self sufficient. I was so glad it did. I still don't want it nearly as much as he does, but it's enough to meet his needs.
Talk, and talk, and talk some more. Listen, listen, and listen some more. Men really are wired differently and they honestly don't understand why we don't want sex. Also, one night I completely lost my temper with DH for pulling that sulking little boy stuff and went completely off. I don't know why they think that is going to accomplish anything, but I told him if he was in the mood NOT to have sex, that was exactly the way to act. He stopped.
Good luck with your situation. I know how much these intimacy issues suck. But they can be overcome if both of you care enough to put forth the effort.
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